Another newbie to London - some really basic advice please?

Hi there

I'm so excited to be posting on here as a ballot place runner.

I'm utterly determined to do the marathon, on week 3 of a 16 week plan. No lofty ambitions except for the day itself to be as enjoyable as it can be and to not feel like crying!  I'm even being good with my diet now.

I've done half marathons before (well, 2 anyway) and a lot of 10k's. More of a plodder than a speed merchant except for the problem below.

I've stuck close to the plan I'm doing including fartleks, tempo runs and all that and love it but have 2 big problems which I think are linked.  I run too fast especially on my long runs.  I noticed a while back as well that I look at the ground a lot when I run which isn't great so I've made a conscious effort to look up, i just don't think my breathing is great. 

Does anyone have any tips for regulating breathing, have stopped listening to my music a few times and noticed that helps a bit but I think I start too quick, tire myself out and more likely to stop as I start puffing. I run on my own.

Also, any advice on websites I can look at to do stretches etc., or would you recommend a session with a trainer or to join a running club?  Also it necessary to do stretches? It's all I've ever heard from friends who do running but a personal trainer at my gym was saying don't do any.  I'm determined to  do whatever I can to make 22nd April work.

Finally, will doing weights, low weight but lots of reps help?  I've been doing some anyway but want to make sure am doing right cross training.  Sorry for all the questions.

I love running and the way it makes me feel so very much but a bit nervous too as had a knee injury and operation 2 years ago and had to defer last year's place.

Any advice much appreciated.

Thanks

X

Hi Antonialouise. Welcome to the forum. Lots of questions here so I'll start at the top and work my way down.

Realising that you are running your LSRs too fast is a good start. Ideally your pace should be around 45-60 seconds per mile slower than your anticipated race pace. Not an easy thing to do but if you work at it now you will soon get into a good rythm with it and you will find your training will be a lot more effective and comfortable. You should be able to maintain a conversation on your LSRs (maybe not so much towards the end of your long runs but definately at the beginning). This is a good guide as to wether you are going too fast.

It is a good idea to run with other people. Have a look at your local running clubs. You will get the benefit of running with other people as well as the experience of some of the more seasoned runners. Due to work commitments I am unable to join my local club but if I had more time I would be there next week.

With regard to the stretching, it is definately worth it when you are regularly running and running longer distances. Before my longer runs I do half a mile of building up from a brisk walk to my run as a warm up. At the end of the run I do the same thing in reverse. Once inside and still warm I do a few basic stretches working on the main muscles. Have a look online and you should be able to find some good stretches. If you go to a running club then I imagine that all this will be covered in their sessions too.

Cross training covers a multitude of excercises that work other muscle groups. I do a few weights, a bit of rowing and I cycle to a from work. I also do some core strengthening excercises that are basically like pilates and involve holding particular stretches. I don't follow a particular routine with my cross training. I just do what I feel like doing on the day and try to vary my routine a bit.

It is a good thing that you are enjoying the running as this will make it far easier to tear yourself out of bed on those cold dark mornings when half of your friends are having lie in to nurse their hangovers! If you stick to the plan and stay injury free than you will get to the start line for the last 26.2 miles of your journey. It is an incredible experience and achievement. I wouldn't worry about crying either. I've run  London twice now and crossed the finishing line both times sobbing like a goodun!

Good luck with the training

Lots of good advice above.

Your breathing will improve with training, don't worry.  It may be worth turning the music off if it improves things.

For stretches, the runnersworld website has lots of information, including a selection of basic ones that will give you a good stretch in just a few minutes.  Stretching or not is your choice, as opinions differ.  I stretch regularly, but some very successful runners never do.

I would not start new cross-training excercise now, as you already have a lot to adjust to.  Walking is good though, as is core strengthening.  Again, lots of information on this on the runnersworld website.

Good luck.

Hi Neiling. Firstly really sorry for not replying and thanking you for your reply and great advice before now.

I've decided so far not to join a running club, I may do so in a few weeks time but if not will deffo go after the marathon, think it'll really benefit me.

I deffo go too fast on my LSR's.  God knows how given that I'm fairly slow to begin with but I tried having a conversation with myself (I look mad enough as it is, this exacerbates it needless to say) and I was  abit rubbish.  I'll keep trying and hopefully find a happy medium.

Thanks for the advice too re cross training. I might try a couple of pilates classes at the gym and keep up with the weights. I've been told low weight, lots of reps.  Does that sound right?

I've done as you suggested re starting with the brisk walk, and it's helped quite a bit so thank you.

I intend to cry like a good 'un indeed, just hopefully only at the end rather than half way round due to pain, and that cursed wall!

Thanks again.

x

Hi LaurentD, 

As with Neiling, I'm so sorry for being rubbish at responding.  Thanks so much for taking the time to reply.

Thanks for the reassurance re the breathing, I think it's getting there...slowly.   I go off too fast and end up having to walk too soon though so need to work on this.  

I'll have a look at runnersworld and I've got a book I may use too, as well as possibly attempting the pilates though am conscious am out 4 times a week, so not sure I have loads of time for pilates and cross training except for weights...so your advice re not trying new cross training took a lot of pressure of. 

Time is flying by....exciting...daunting.

Thanks again

X

I find with my long slow run thats its easier to keep to a pace by working out how long you want each mile to take, say its 10 mins, keep an eye of the pace and distance and if you hit ne mile before 10 mins you know your going to fast so need to slow down.

Thanks mashley.  That's  really helpful.   I'll aim for that.  I already know that I'll be slow on the day but if I can keep up with the 5hr or 5 hr 30 markers then I'll be happy.

Thank you again, I'll try this at the weekend.

x

Hi thought I would share my thoughts

Long run timing is not easy for anyone - some days even tho I think I am running slow, i find I have had a bit of a sprint going !! - As mashley says - I have a first mile marker for my LSR and I look at my watch religiously at that point and adjust from there on.

However, as a solo runner myself I was not prepared for how different running with so many people in London would be !! The biggest field we normally have here in Perth is 400 and it is easy to run your own race and keep to your own times !! in London I went out far too fast with excitement, then everyone slowed down a bit as we all merged, then we speeded up again .. then we slowed down at Tower Bridge ... speeded up again etc etc 

What I am trying to say is don't beat yourself up for not getting your LSR pace right - the most important bit of your long run is to make it LONG - there are a few more to get through yet - have you thought of just going out for a couple of your long runs without your watch ? Sometimes it is good to just cover the distance because at the end of the day you want to be able to finish 

Good luck x

Thanks so much Julie.  Really appreciate your advice.   Firstly, lucky you living in Perth. Was there quite a few years ago now (2005) and my favourite place in Australia. Gorgeous climate, lovely place.

You're spot on re getting the long bit right, I'm realising this.  But I get a bit bogged down by having to do 1 hr 40 and also getting a bit anxious that without a set route - I go a bit half cock and end up being either too slow or too fast and am anxious about distance etc.,   Going out without a watch could be an idea i reckon.

Related to this, So to my next question, for someone planning a 5 hr to 5 hr 30 finish (ish - maybe shorter, but prepared to be longer) how far should I be running right now?   If I was to try this next weekend (as long as it's not way over my distances right now) and it took longer than how long the next LSR is supposed to be would this be bad?

Does this even make sense? 

Because she's so old, she's very wise....~

I did my first mara in 4.56 and I didn't have a garmin then at all, just a basic sports watch and routes planned out on gmp pedometer.  Never really knew what pace I was running and never got too bogged down in it, just did it by feel and always ran so  felt very comfortable on my LSRs

I get where you are coming from -

What I do for a LSR is plan a route for how far I should go (calculate distance suggested on the program). I use MapMyRun - sometimes I also factor in maybe feeling knackered and calculate a quicker way home 

I would think by next weekend most plans would be up to at least 10 miles ? Should be a Half Marathon on the cards pretty soon .... I know I will get shouted down for saying this next bit but if you are only doing 1hr 40 mins long at the moment, 5 hrs + on the day will seem like a lifetime . 

With 8 decent long runs left -  I would start thinking about cranking up the time on my feet and not worrying about adding weight classes - maybe 10,12,13 (race it),10,14,16,18,20, taper . Most plans have you peaking your longest run at 180 minutes max - which will probably be a 16 miler for you, but doing a 20 mile is great to give you confidence that you can do the distance on the day - if you have to run/walk it after your 180 mins - so what ? 

Good luck with it - you can do it !!

 ... and thanks Flanker - I don't know whether wisdom comes with age - I know wrinkles do - just ask Demi, poor soul 

IMO there is no real physical need to run 20 miles - there is a physical need to safely run at least once in the 3-3.5 hour bracket.

Morning Keith , I agree - physically there may not be a need for the OP to run 20 miles - in fact she may not be able to,  but my opinion is that 20 miles is a good position to try and reach for the mental boost it gives.

This is always a point of contention - how far should my longest run be? - don't know if there is a right answer.

Hiya Julie - bet your weather is better than ours at the moment.

When i started running I was as fixated on the 20 mile "hurdle" as most but have increasingly begun to see it as largely an irrelevance but also one that may actually be unhelpful. There is a huge build up to 20 miles both in terms of preparation (how many 20 milers did you do?), the race itself (its a race of 2 halfs - 20 miles and the last 6) and hitting the wall (where people warn you it will happen at 20 miles).

I just think its all over done both physically and mentally. The key thing for me (and for first timers especially) is not allowing any barrier to build up into something it is not. The only barrier that is important is 26.2. There is no magic at all in running 20 miles and no special powers that it will give you that running 19 or 21  miles won't equally effectively. Getting to twenty miles in training counts for nothing on race day if you go off too fast etc.

In addition I think much (most?) of the hoola grew up in an age when most people actually ran faster marathons therefore the 20 miles (at LSR pace) sort of took them into that 2:45-3:30 territory that the major physical benefits kick in. Now with more slower marathon runners the physical reason for 20 miles is no longer the same but we cling onto an outdated training need as everybody always has.

Its a personal view and not accepted by many on here or elsewhere but the lesson from ultra running for me is that getting to a set % of the distance in training is neither necessary or particularly helpful. It is better to train sensibly and arrive on start line fresh than to put the body through a 4 hour + run to get to 20 miles.

Keith

Wow, thank you all once again for some fantastic helpful replies.   So glad I decided to start coming on here!

Anyway, am up to 10 miles plus some more.   I agree Juliebee re the length of time I'm out, was surprised really when I looked at it but am up to week 5 and it does start going up quite a lot now - and that's what I thought about upping it to 12 next week and not giving any thought really to how long I'm out. Just need to plot a nice exciting little run.  

My aim is definitely to get very near to 20 miles, purely from the point of view that the final 6 won't (hopefully) seem quite so insurmountable then but as you say KeithL, really what does it matter if it's 19, 20, 21 or anything else if you go out like a loon to begin with. 

I'm my own worst critic and get a bit down on myself really so I think I need to chill out a bit!  

Re the half marathon thing, would 18th March be too late in the day? Unfortunately I don't drive so this is my local one, there is a half marathon in Blackpool a couple of weeks before which I may think about it if 18th March will screw things up (i.e. I know I'd be planning my longest run within a week or two of that one).

Thank you again for being so lovely and patient with me. x