picking up speed

So, I'm in for next year's VLM thanks to a golden bond place (prepare for all the panicky fundraising nearer the time!) and am hoping to actually RUN the marathon this time, not just get round as I did in 2011.  I love saying I've run the London Marathon then always cringe when people ask what time I did it in (6 hours 22!!!).  It was a hot day, I walked and chatted with people, had a great time and still felt great by the end having had one hell of an experience.  This time I want a time I can be proud of (not belittling anyone else's efforts here). 

So, I have been looking at some different training programmes (not starting them til much later in the year, though am now running regularly again so am building back up my fitness base) and want to ask what people think about the different methods of building up your speed.  My "4 hour marathon book" has 400m speed repeats from 6 up to 16 (running 400m in 2mins, then 2mins rest, repeat...).  Other suggestions are tempo runs which seem to be either running at a much faster pace than normal (how on earth am I supposed to run a 8.5 minute mile when I'm struggling to regain my 11 minute mile pace?) or perhaps you run splits, getting faster per mile then reaching a peak before slowing back down by the last couple of miles.  Other sources have suggested hill training- running up a hill then walking back down it and repeat many times over.  I'm not asking for a miracle here.  I know that variety in training is the key to improving performance (ooh er!), but I'm beginning to feel a little confused as to which types of training I should adopt in order to basically drop my minutes per mile time.  I want to complete the marathon in a time beginning with a 5 or even better, a 4.  Sensible suggestions please.  xxx

Hiya

Focus for moment on consistent training building up core ability again. Spend a good 2-3 months just getting into routine. Dont worry about speed at moment it will come in time.

I am not a fan of hill training (just don't enjoy it) and for a course like London IMO its not necessary and increases risk of injury so I wouldn't bother.

Think its really relatively simple. You need to do a couple of effort sessions a week at a pace faster than either your LSR pace or your easy pace (if you have different paces). If it were me one session would be a tempo run after a warm up building up the middle part of the run to a pace maybe 30-60 seconds faster than your target time. Over the course of the program this middle section would get longer. The other session would be intervals. The 400m is good - many people make the intervals too short - you need to be running a couple of minutes at least on each interval. Pace wise maybe 45-75 seconds faster than target pace.

Speed will come but first concentrate on building a solid  base - the foundation is everything

Keith

Cheers, Keith.  Yep, am going to just keep up the initial 3 mile run (which I'm just about doing now without needing a walk break which is progress) 2-3 times a week to build up my fitness base then will add a little bit on each Sunday morning's run to gently bring my mileage up to a decent 8-10 miles which I used to consider a decent though not over exerting Sunday morning run. As a teacher, I'm getting ready for the lovely long summer holidays which is a good time to focus on getting back into a good running regime. Maybe by the end of the 6 weeks I'll be ready to start adding some miles to the mid week runs and put in some 400m repeats and then tempo runs by November/December.  Am pleased I know I'm in for London now as it means I can get some pre-training in before the proper training programme starts.  Like I said, I want to RUN it. More info on tempo runs would be great though e.g. length of run and the mile splits (as in what proportion of the run is at 30-60 seconds faster than tartget time).  I can feel the running madness upon me already!  I know it's going to take time and patience.  It is a marathon not a sprint after all!!!  xxx

A Bus will get you round in under 4 hours Ll..........

ha ha ha.  xxx

In terms of tempo runs the aim is to get to perhaps 4/5 miles at the tempo pace. But you build that up over the course of the training. So at start maybe a mile or two, adding abit on every few weeks till you hit max. Hard sessions but very good. You get a real sense of achievement

Blimey! The thought of 4-5 miles at top speed is a bit daunting, but I remember thinking that about every up coming LSR last time round and I managed to complete all of them.  Do you do a mile or 2 before hitting the accelerator (and a mile or 2 at the end at slower pace) or just start out at the top pace?  Ran all my basic 3 mile route yesterday for the first time (without any walk breaks) since I took up running again recently so am feeling happy.  Felt v tired afterwards though, but legs are fine today.  Long ways to go though am hoping it won't take as long to build up the miles as last time.  So slow though, 12 mins a mile.  Would love to get that down to 10 mins a mile.  That's the aim of the next 6-9 months (with the mileage also of course!).  xxx

Tempo runs aren't top speed - they are 'comfortably hard' pace. At least 15s/mile slower than 'speed intervals'.

Tried Roller Skates????

Struggling with the 'comfortably hard' at the moment..???

Lol!  Only been running regularly again for a few weeks.  Am comfortably running 3 miles now and am going to build that up a bit before starting to work on my speed, but 12 mins a mile at the mo just sucks!  Want to run 10 minute miles by April.  Am I being totally unrealistic then?  I hope not. That's why I'm asking you guys all these questions so that I can formulate a plan.  All these ideas and hopes rushing around my head and of course the excitement of knowing I'm in for VLM again is definitely making me run before I can walk so to speak!  You know me though, will worry about something new every week!  Gonna take the dog on a l o n g walk today and run tomorrow.  Am actually enjoying it all a lot more than the last time round.  xxx

Flanks has had experience with taking dogs out over the years. Only the ones who drink cider get taken out a second time though !!!!

Always nice to see those puppies....

Soft, cuddly and nice to stroke eh Flanks?????

I too have been struggling with speed.  I have been running for a few months now (after a 4 year break).  I am up to 10.7 miles (last 4 weeks) and this is consistently taking me 1 hr 45mins.  This works out to 10min miles, which is really poor considering whre I was 4 years ago.  I did my last marathon in 4hrs exactly. 

I try really hard to increase the speed, but still end up with the same time!!  Any thoughts?

David

I might suggest that you mix it up a bit. The problem often is that if you always run at the same pace that's what your body always lets you do.!..try setting off on your next 10 miler at you usual 10min mile pace, after 3 miles pick the pace up to say 8.30 min miling for 5 miles and finish off the last 2 miles at 10 min miling again. It worked for me and made me realise that it was my 'mind' that was making me stick at my usual pace rather then my 'body', which when asked to push the limits responded perfectly OK. I pushed from a very average 44 mins for my 5 mile circuit to 39 mins within 1 week by doing this. Obviously you can just vary the times according to the planned distance you are running on the day and see where you end up,

I am still just running 2.5 miles, just making sure I can do it comfortably before properly starting to train i.e. add on the mileage week on week and get some 400m repeats going, but am already doing what you've just suggested, Flanks.  The 2.5 miles has come down from 32 mins to 29mins just by trying to run the first 10 mins comfortably, speed up for the middle 10 mins then last 10 mins comfortably again.  I know this is on a mini scale and still slow by all other times (I'd LOVE to run 10 minute miles!) and I even don't get this right and end up having to walk for 30 secs-1min, but an improvement is being made.  The trouble I'm finding now is that I want to run on the flat as I get into running properly again, but have recently moved into a village on top of a hill meaning that there are lots of ups and downs.  Running out a mile and some downhill then back the mile and some uphill mans that I if I try to pick up my pace I may end up having to walk a little as I can't get all the way back up the hill to home without a break!  Am hoping that it's just strengthening my legs and lungs!

Going to the map section to try and plot my next run, though don't like the new look butttons there as am struggling to get an accurate distance- snapping a route to the road does not seem to add/take away mileage from a "direct course".  xxx

P.s. did anyone watch the Panorama about the truth behind sports products?  Just watched it and wondered what you all thought about their "findings". Looks like banana on toast and water rule!...  xxx

Flanks - Sub 8 minute miles. Total respect !!!!! Do you put it down to the cider? If so, I will definitely give it a go.

Landlady - Hills are a bugger for me too - unless I am going down them. SOme people just have a natural aptitude - some don't - and I am in the latter category. Don't be hard on yourself and keep your aims realistic. Yonks ago i could do a 10k in 53mins - nowadays having achieved venerable Old Fart status, it has gone just over the hour. Bothered me for a while but once you accept it, you enjoy it much more

Re the Sports Drinks etc, like most industries,a lot of it is spin and packaging !!!!1

Did 4 miles of very hilly road running today and it took me a ridiculous 58 minutes!!!  Am putting it down to a) very hot weather and b) lots of horrible hills.  I ran the whole 4 miles though even if some of that running was as slow as walking.  Desperately need to find some flatter roads.  Totally wiped me out.  Now got to take down a greenhouse and chop up a felled tree ready for burning.  Rest day tomorrow me thinks.  xxx

Thanks radio, although that was 3 years or so ago.....think I'd more likely be on the floor if I tried sub 8s nowadays....Oh the memory is still so clear though....!!!!