picking up speed

Doesn't matter when it was Flanks. The point is that you actually did it !!!!! In our minds we feel we are still capable !!!!!! OUt of the 24 Marathons that I have finished, I managed to go sub 5 hours twice - and to me that was like winning th Olympics !!!! Wouldn't get near it these days, but as long as I can still remember doing it, it gives me a boost !!!!

Landlady, Well done on your efforts. Hills are cr-p but they will have given your stamina more of a boost than you possibly realise. Keep it up!!!!

I live in rural Dorset and can run precisely 1.6 miles from my house in any direction (except a perfect circle) before I hit around a 1:4 hill. I have learned to embrace the beast (a lesson a few of my girlfriends had to endure).....I really love hilly runs now and I feel the benefit completely. To me, there is nothing like reaching the climax and feeling that lovely all over tingle when you just coast down the other side with a big smile and move on to the next one........or is that women..???

Easy to get them mixed up Flanks. Both get you hot and sweaty, out of breath, and take alot of effort. Both make you want to go to sleep afterwards too !!! How soon afterwards do you fancy having another one?

Been gardening all day (well, digging out the entire garden and loading it into a skip to start anew) and was tired but good to go for a run.  My husband was exhausted and a comment on how I clearly had more endurance and stamina than him did not go down too well!  Just goes to show how the running can help in all aspects of life...  First attempt at 400 metre 2 minute repeats today.  Blimey it was hard work!  Only managed 4. Pitiful. I hope that this will help my legs (and heart and lungs!) get used to running faster and so next week I can manage 6.  Not sure what to run on Sunday though.  Did a comfortable 2.5 miles on Monday, ridiculously slow but hilly 4 miles on Tuesday (my longest run so far) and the repeats tonight. Should I try a faster 2.5 miles or push for a longer slow run of 5.5 miles (just mapped that one out) or try the hilly 4 miles again?  Choices choices. Your thoughts please.  xxx

Sorry Ll, missed you this weekend. I would keep mixing them up during the week and then always do 1 long 'race pace' run a week of whatever distance you feel like. There is no need to worry too much about the 10% increase as you are a marathonner and you know your legs won't explode if you run more then 15 miles.????...If I'm mara training (which I'm not). I always do 1 really good session of sprints/intervals (usually during an 8 miler or so) and one nice long run, then just fill in the gaps with shorter faster runs with whatever time I have left. Works for me...

Good to hear you're still competitive with your hubby..!!,,,just get out there and kick his arse..

Glad you said "Kick" Flanks. Hope it wasn't a typing error !! I am out of action at the moment with an Achilles tendon injury which I have suffered with on and off for about 15 years. Very frustrating as the GNR is only weeks away !!!

So went for a slow but steady 4 miles on Sunday with only one killer hill in it and it took me 48 minutes which I'm happy with.  Been so exhausted though due to the gardening and running and my 4 year old getting me several times in the night wanting milk (think she's having a regression due to the mention of school in September!) so had a couple of days off and went for my short 2.5 miles.  Did it in 28 minutes which is my quickest time yet.  However, was split into 13 out, 15 back so not an even pace.  The run back is all up hill though. Still an improvement though so at least picking up speed is showing some signs of not being a ludicrous dream!

Was wondering what you guys think is better; to try and lengthen my stride (to cover that little bit more ground per stride as a method of gaining pace), or to concentrate on upping my leg turnover which I think is the point of running 400m intervals (more strides per minuts in order to up my pace).  I would say that at 5 foot 4 I have very little legs though I don't suppose that makes all that much difference?  Now I'm not just trying to cover the miles (like you said, having run a marathon before, I know I can ultimately cover the distance) I am more aware of running style and can feel when I am "bouncing along" with a longer stride or if my legs are taking regular/shorter strides but more of them.  Normally I feel a bit like I'm resting on my heels and have to make a conscious effort to make each stride propel me forwards.

Thoughts and tips please...  xxx

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that throughout history most of the fastest distance runners in the world are short in stature and length of leg.

Without knowing how fast you are striding at the moment, can't really say whether or not you'd benefit from speeding it up. What I can say though is that a leg cadence of roughly 90 strides a minute is thought to be really efficient and effective, and is proving so for me. Check how fast you are turning your legs over by choosing a leg and counting how many times that foot hits the floor in a minute.

Can also say that you are unlikely to benefit from trying to lengthen your stride. Consciously doing this will most likely result in you one way or another 'throwing' your foot further forward. That is going to increase the angle between your foot and the road on landing, so you'll be landing more heavily on your heels. Kick off your shoes and do this barefoot on some nice soft grass somewhere for just a few yards and it should be enough for you to feel everything that is wrong with that.

If you're not anywhere near 90 strides per minute at the moment, it will be really difficult to do. The 2 most effective tips I can give you for bringing up that leg speed if you are a long way off it is to forget completely about running!:-

1. Try to hold a straight line in your body and allow yourself to fall forward, don't bend at the waist, stay straight, keep falling. One of your legs will naturally come forward to stop you. That's it! Don't run, just keep on falling and letting your legs catch you. This will hold your body at the right angle for you to naturally land mid-foot rather than on your heels.

2. Your foot will hit the floor somewhere very close to your centre of gravity, but as you are falling (leaning)forward, your body will already be infront of it. The trick here is to try to pick up that foot behind you. Don't push off from your toes, let your lower legs stay as relaxed as possible, the big muscles around your hips are the ones you want to be doing the work. Lift your heel up off the floor behind you, and this is where the leg speed will come from (eventually if not straight away), try to lift your foot behind you before it has even touched the floor (sounds daft I know, and if you actually succeed in doing that you'll be flat on your face), but just thinking "lift" before that contact happens does get that foot up off the ground much quicker than if you wait for the touch and then lift).

I'm happy for you to PM me if you wish to talk about this technique in more detail.

I've been working for a long time at finding a technique that will ultimately allow me to take on the mightly 24 hour challenge of The Paddy Buckley Round, a 61 mile run across 47 peaks in Snowdonia, with 28,000ft of climbing (almost the equivalent of Everest (29,000ft)). I've had to change technique as I have struggled badly with injury, and the marathon really has been my limit. This technique took a while to find, but it is working, and working well.

Sounds tricky, but will give it a go if I can find any grass left in my garden to practice on (a soft landing in case I f*** up).  People used to say that marathon running is madness, but being on here and reading things like your Paddy Buckly Round is proof that there are way madder things out there than running a marathon! 

Radioman- sorry to hear you're out with injury.  Hope you heal up sufficiently for the GNR.

Must say that my knees are really hurting.  Rest today and am sure that once my quads strengthen up some more it'll be fine.  xxx

thanks LL. I'm hoping to have a VERY gentle trot next week to test it out, but at the moment it's about 50/50. Funny really as I have done thr GNR twice before and after each one, I vowed I wouldn t ever do it again - and yet here I am, entered for a third time. I find the logistics of it very off putting. SO many people for a half, and getting accommodation and transport is a nightmare!!!!

If you are landing on your heels your knees are having an awful lot of work to do. Firstly, that impact force is travelling up a straight leg, and so will be hammering your knee joint. Landing that way will also cause you to 'brake'. The knee then has to work hard to move your body forward as the muscles acting on it work extra hard to overcome that braking effect and keep you moving forwards.

With the technique I'm now using, the same technique I'm suggesting you use too (and yes it is tricky to learn at first, but practice makes perfect as they say), your foot absorbs the impact which would otherwise hit your knee, your knee is already bent on impact so the muscles of the upper legs get an easier ride (and pull on the knee less) as they work through a smaller range of motion. Your bodyweight is also already forward, so those braking forces are also taken off the knee.

I'll try to find some pictures for you to illustrate what I'm talking about. I did once see a really good picture showing 2 runners side by side, one heel striking, one landing mid-foot. It was the picture that convinced me to change my technique. I couldn't download it though. Bear with me, I''ll find something.

Can also tell you that occasionally as I tire I feel odd strides slipping back into my old way of running. It only happens once on a run. When my heel strikes first and I feel all that action going on in the knee, it hurts. It comes as a real shock when it happens how much it hurts, and I honestly can't believe that I used to run like that every single stride. No wonder I got injured. Has taken a long while to adjust, and I'm still learning, but making the change has been so worth it.

Here we are:

Hopefully you can see there how that impact of landing is just sent straight up the leg, there is no bend, no flex, nothing to absorb the shock. Does that knee support say it all?

The lady on the left here though is pretty much there:

Landing slap bang on the middle of her foot (with or without shoes would be the same), and she's not pushing off her toes making the relatively small calf muscle do the work, but rather lifting (or curling if you like) her foot up off the floor behind her. Look how easy it looks too, her friend on the right pushing through her calves visibly appears to be working harder.

Hope that helps in some way .

Been trotting round the house trying out your technique and it sent the dog mad trying to nip my heels!  Feels very clumpy so I hope I've got it right.  Will have a go on my next run and see what happens, especially if it helps make my bum and thighs look that toned (which no amount of running seems to do)!!! Radioman- begin a southerner, I don't know anything about the GNR, not where it is, how long or anything. Vaguely think I've watched it on tv in the past though. Have been invited to do a 10k and a half mara in Fleet (Hampshire) by my sister's partner, but since he runs 7 and a half minute miles, I don't fancy travelling all that way for him to be finished before I've even tied my laces!

xxx

It felt completely alien to me Landlady when I first started with it, took a lot of getting used to. When the leg speed is up at that 90 stries a minute mark though it does knit together very nicely. In the beginning I could really feel the muscles all around my hips and pelvis working really hard. All I can say is that it does get easier with time, but I concede it is really tricky in the beginning. Mind you, all new things are tricky in the beginning. Ever tried writing with your wrong hand? That too though improves with practice.

Well worth casting a critical eye over the running form of the elite athletes in the Olympics, not so much the sprints, but 3k steeplechase and longer - many of the athletes run with this midfoot technique - you can see how their legs are doing all the work behind them, the heels come quite high but the knees stay quite low, and it looks effortless.

I don't get my heels to lift up anything like as high as they do, so maybe the next phase for me is to develop more strength in my hamstrings? Like I say, I'm also still learning.

I'm sure you will have seen the GNR on TV, LL. It goes from Newcastle to South Shields and is a Half with more trunners than the London Marathon. In truth, there are just too many in it for it to be comfortable, and having to get back to Newcastle afterwards can be a nightmare. Even the course is unattractive with a lot of it beoeing on motorway or A roads. The way my tendon is at the moment I think I have little or no chance anyway, as I am even struggling to walk=, let alone run. I think that Father Time is trying to get a message through to me !!!!

Utter nonsense radioman!  My dad is in his 60's and still runs a minimum of 8 miles every Sunday morning and does it in around 1hour 12mins!!!  He's run and played football all his life and even managed to get back into it after a cartilage op on his ankle.  It's the running that'll keep you young (though I admit it doesn't feel like that on a baking hot mid-August LSR!).  Tried out the midfoot strike technique a tiny bit yesterday and can see that it just wanted to propell me forward; uncomfortably so!  Decided that my LSR was not the right time to be playing around with a new stride so will try it out on my recorvery run tomorrow.  Have been watching the marathon, 10k and so on over the weekend.  What's with all the high vis Nikes everyone seems to wear?  are they wearing the same model or what? I need new trainers though have discovered that mine have been discontinued due to a newer model now out.  Should I try the newer version?  They won't be that different will they?  V expensive though (around £120) and can't afford it at the moment.  Can get my current ones online much cheaper, but not found my size yet.  The hunt continues...  xxx

Thanks for the encouragement LL. However I have suffered on and off with Achilles trouble for 15 years and it is definitely getting worse. Once it goes, it means weeks out of action so you never manage to really build up any miles before you are back to square one again!!! As for the runners, don'r believe all the hype that surrounds them these days. The manufacturers have "created" an industry trying to make you believe that padding here, cushioning there and a fancy new stripe on the sole will make you the next Paula Radcliffe !!!! Just settle for a pair that are comfortable. Running shoes are grossly overpriced for what they actually are, which, let's face it, are a souped up glorified pair of pumps !!!!!!! Just because they might look "trendy", doesn't mean you should shell out big bucks for them. Comfort and reliability are all you need !!

Hi, can someone advice me am entering 

My first half marathon in October , and at the moment am only doing 11. Mins miles, how can I build my speed up so am running at least 9. Mins miles i would really would like to finish within 2 hrs. 

Hi

Good luck with the half.

The chances are you will run a little faster in a race than you do in training - most people do.

But to be honest there is no sensible training advice that will see you improve your base speed over 13.1 miles by 2 minutes a mile within the next 6-8 weeks. Any plan that suggests that is unreaslistic and is likely to lead to injury.

Ways to increase speed are over time building in different paced runs such as intervals (400 metres fast, 200 recovery repeated, or up to a mile with 1/2 mile recoveries repeated) or tempo runs (shorter runs done at a faster pace. But at this stage these might tune you up a bit but are unlikely to add huge amounts of base speed.

I would just go and enjoy your first half marathon for what it is and not worry about time. BTW what distance are you up to running at moment?

Keith

Hi Chopper 57,

That's good advice from Keith_L , I dont know where you live or the type of terrain around where you do live, Myself I have been lucky , I live right on the edge of Dartmoor, From my door I could run straight up hill to the top of the Cawsdon beacon 1805 feet , a run I done regularly as part of a 12 mile run, 6 out 6 back , all I'm saying is look around where you live and find the best areas to help you in you your training, Keith is right speed doesn't come right away, but you can improve with the type of training you do and more so, the commitment you are willing to put in to your training, This is what worked for me.

I done a lot of hill training,  easy runs over the moors,  also ,  there is a football field at the back of where I live , I got a car wheel  strapped it round my waist, and would do 100 metre sprints on the football field, as fast as I could , take a couple of minutes breather and do the same again back the other way, there is a 6 in 1 hill at the bottom of the village, I would do 100 m sprints up and jog down, I used to run the Tiverton canal tow path, steady runs but  eye up a couple of electric poles, and decide I was going to run fast from one to the other, and dont slow up until you pass your target point ( fartlek running) , or again Id use the football field ,to do 100m strides back kicks ( kicking you backside with your heals ) long strides , high skips going forward knees as high as you can, I tell you it all pays off, another thing I would do , contrary to what some people where telling me at the time, I would go for say, a steady 8 or 10 mile run , easy all the way, but run my last mile fast,  like I say these are methods that worked for me, and I was a late starter, My best marathon times where between 2 hours 40 mins. and 2 hours 50 Min's.  my best half marathon times where Goonhilly in Cornwall 1 hour 14.56 min. and the Dartmoor Half marathon in 1 hour 14.33 Min's , mind you when I say easy running I dont mean slow, I mean you feel comfortable , but know you are working,  the commitment you are willing to put in to achieve what you want.